Recent Discussions

Conversion to Gas

26th March 1999      S.R.Pandri Nath @giasbg01.vsnl.net.in

Hi guys,

There is new offeringbhere in Bangalore to convert Petrol cars to LPG. Does
any one on this list have any experience on this type of conversion.

---How safe is it ?
---They say no carburettor is needed. How then is the air/gas ratio adjusted ?
--- What is the prevailing price quoted in other cities / In Bangalore, it
is Rs 11000/-

Pandri

28th March 1999      RAJEEB ROY @md3.vsnl.net.in

Dear Mr. Padri,

The answer to your queries is as follows:
1. It is totally safe see the FAQ.
2. The Existing carburettor is used but you add one component which is known
as vaporiser and the component  has got a provision for idling adjustment
and gas flow adjustment .
3. The prevailing  Customer price ranges from Rs. 7000/- to Rs. 12,000/- for
all the carburettor type cars and it is Rs.  Rs. 14,000/- to 17,000 /- for
the Multipoint fuel injection type car.
4. There  are lots of vatiation in the components and that is why it is safe
to go for a quality product. For your information I am giving you the price
of the high quality vaporiser and price list for ready reference.


Kit Name and type	Type of Ascessories	Customer Price with Fitting Charges
and  One Year Service Warranty
Navnil [PARA]Ahmedabad Make  	Vaccum Type ,[PARA]With Filter ,Mixer and
Electronic Changeover Switch and Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of Petrol
Solenoid	9750/-
	Electronic Type Vaporizer [PARA]With  Same Ascessories, Electronic Fuel
Pump in Place of Petrol Solenoid	10750/-
	Electronic type with Multi point Fuel Injection Type Kit fir Cielo and
automatic changeover switch from Petrol to Gas.	15000/-
BRC FOX,70 kW, Italy,	With Imported Vaporizer and Local Solenoids, filter,
mixer, Automatic cutoff relay switch, Heating Pad, Electronic Fuel Pump in
Place of Petrol Solenoid	11500/-
	With Imported Vaporizer and Imported Gas Solenoid,  and other Local
Ascessories with Relay for Heating Pad Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of
Petrol Solenoid	12500/-
BRC VACCUM KIT 100 kW for More Power and better Gas Flow,Suitable for
Contessa and Ambassador ISUZU 	With Imported Vaporizer and Solenoids, Mixer,
Heating Pad, Filter ETC. Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of Petrol Solenoid
13500/-


BRC Electronic 90 E,100 kW for more Power and better Gas Flow	With Imported
Solenoid, Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of Petrol Solenoid	14500/-
CIELO KIT WITH [PARA]BRC Electronic 90 E,100 kW for more Power and better
Gas Flow	With BRC Solenoids.[PARA]And automatic Changeover Switch, Relay for
Heating Pad, Filter,  	16,500/-

Zavoli ,Italy 	Vacuum Type[PARA]With Filter Mixer, Imported Solenoid from
Valtek and Imported Switch from AEB and Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of
Petrol Solenoid	12500/-
	Electronic Type, Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of Petrol Solenoid	13500/-
	For Multipoint Fuel Injection System	19000/-
Lovato Italy	Vacuum Type,Vaporisor Imported  Solenoid and Switches Local ,
Electronic Fuel Pump in Place of Petrol Solenoid	11,500/-

	Vacuum Type With Imported Solenoid and Switches, Electronic Fuel Pump in
Place of Petrol Solenoid	12500/-
	Electronic with Imported Switches and Solenoid Valves, Electronic Fuel Pump
in Place of Petrol Solenoid	13500/-
	Kit for Multipoint Fuel Injection System Cielo,Huyandi, Honda,Benz, Matiz
18000/-

Frequently Asked Questions on Running the Car on Gas:

Advantages OF LPG over other fuels:

* The combustion of LPG is smoother as a result of the higher octane
content. Unlike other fuels, no additives are required to guarantee high
quality.

* LPG contains no lead and is therefore cleaner.


* LPG reaches the engine in pure gas form resulting in an improved air/fuel
mix with consequential refined combustion.

* With the modern technology, there is hardly any discharge of carbon
monoxide, and compared to petrol and diesel, the exhaust fumes contain less
harmful substances.


* The life of the engine is extended as a result of the absence of acids and
carbon deposits.

* The engine oil does not become diluted with a consequential reduction in
servicing costs.


* Unlike diesel, you do not have to adjust your driving style. Cold starting
is no problem; engine performance is almost exactly the same as with petrol.
There is no spilling and no possibility of theft or pilfering. Engine noise
is low and you'll be driving in a more environment-friendly way.

* The environmental advantages of LPG for automotive use are indisputable.
LPG does not produce any visible soot or smoke from the exhaust.


* Existing fuel system is retained which considerably increases vehicle
range.

Is it legal?
Way back in 1996 ministry of Petroleum has given the green signal for the
use of LPG as automobile fuel.  Changes are being made in the LPG control
order and the Motor Vehicle Acts to include the LPG as motor fuel.
How can gas and Petrol work in the same engine?
Though the petrol is in the liquid state, it is also converted into gas
before it is burnt in the engine.
What is the Dual Fuel System?
You can start and run the car with either on gas or petrol by using an
electronic change over switch provided on the dashboard.

What about safety?
It is an ideal fuel for you car and as safe as your wife cooking in her
kitchen.
If I buy a new car, can I use the same equipment?
The equipment is one time investment. It can be used for any petrol engine
including the latest fuel injection systems and turbo fuel injection
systems.
Why do I need gas conversion Kit?
To save money and help the environment from pollution.
How it will save my money?
A gas cylinder of 14 K.G, which is equivalent to 21 litres of petrol, will
run about 200 Kilometers for Ambassador, 240 K.M for Premier Padmini and 300
KM for Maruti. Just imagine the economy.
How this is being used in other countries?
Gas tanks are permanently fitted in the car instead of Petrol tanks. In
those countries they have gas-filling bunks like petrol bunks.
Will it harm my petrol engine?
Gas mode of running the car does not damage the engine in any manner.
Original petrol system remains intact. More over it enhances the life of the
engine because of the less emission.
In what way it is environment friendly?
Exhaust emission is reduced by 51 % or more. No toxic emission gas contain
no sulfur/lead. Millions of tonnes of atmospheric pollution are released
each year with around 80% of this coming from motor vehicles.
Particulates (small particles of black smoke and other pollutants) released
by diesel and, to a lesser extent, petrol engines are the most harmful air
pollutant. Particulates have been estimated to contribute to the deaths of
up to 10,000 people each year in the UK.

Benzene is a human carcinogen so dangerous that it is impossible to
demonstrate a dose which carries no risk. The main source of benzene in the
atmosphere is petrol from cars.


The Carcinogen 1,3-butadiene is also a threat at any measurable dose. Two
thirds of 1,3-butadiene emissions (some 6,390 tonnes annually) come from
petrol driven vehicles.
Many of the emissions from Petrol and Diesel engines also damage the natural
environment and buildings.

How is LPG  a significant improvement  Environmentally ?

With LPG vehicles....
* Carbon Monoxide emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 40% less
than diesel.
* Hydrocarbon emissions are around 60% less than petrol and 50% less than
diesel.
* Nitrous oxide emissions are around 80% less than petrol and 90% less than
diesel.
* Particulates (PM10s) are non existent in LPG.
* Carbon dioxide, which contributes to smog and global warming, is lower in
LPG.


If my car runs on unleaded petrol?
You still get 8.15 % mpg reduced emission.
Will it effect my catalytic converter?
No it will not damage any part of the engine or fuel system.

Do I need any additive and is there any maintenance?
No additive and no maintenance are required for the vehicle.
How is its performance?
No emission, no smoke, no compromise on the pickup.
In the event of any leakage will it explode?
The gas diffuses much faster in air than petrol vapor and looses its
ignition condition. That is why a house wife has to repeatedly ignite the
electronic lighter above the gas stove after releasing the gas till it
reaches a particular density.
Is it safe if the cylinder is lies flat instead of keeping it upright?
Jolting of car anyway effect the safety?
There will be no problem. Cylinders are manufactured as per international
specifications and standards to resist any jerk or jolt. It can be fixed in
any position. Only for burning a gas stove it is necessary for the cylinders
to be kept in upright position.
If I keep the cylinder in full sunlight, what will happen to the cylinder?
An average hot day the temperature is 40 degree centigrade.
The pressure of the gas is 16.87 K.G /Sq.  Even at the temperature of 65
degree centigrade. The maximum working pressure in the cylinder is 8 Kg/Sq.
Cm. The Cylinder Testing pressure is 25 KG/Sq. CM
Why it won't back fine into the cylinder after the ignition?
Due to the pressure in the cylinder the gas will flow out of the cylinder
and the absence of Oxygen in the cylinder, backfire does not occur. (Just
like the gas in the kitchen stove).
Does the conversion of Petrol run car to Gas run car effect the Insurance
coverage?
By paying an additional 300 Rupees the Vehicle Insurance coverage can be
endorsed with Insurance Company for the Gas run Vehicle.
Is if safe?
To understand this better certain facts are to be given due consideration:
* Gas cylinders are made as per International Specifications and Standards
with a factor of safety 5-6.
* Cylinders are double walled.
* Gas is lighter than air so it has a tendency to get diffused in case of
any leakage.
* All the vehicle has a crumble zone. In the event of any accident for the
cylinder to explode you really need first to cross the crumble zone which
will take most of the impact from the accident and residual force is never
capable of exploding the cylinder.
* A gas cylinder can normally burst only in the event of a fire in the car
where the surrounding temperature exceeds at-least 400-500 degree centigrade
which again never happens in a car.
Where is the Cylinder placed in the car?
It is fixed in the luggage space of your car.
Will an excess load of cylinder effect my car suspension?
No, a car is designed to carry sufficient load. This is similar to carrying
passenger with luggage.

How will I know that I should change the cylinder ?
There is a pressure gauge installed to the cylinder. When the pressure
indicator shows tow on the gauge change the cylinder.
In a small car like Maruti will it not occupy my luggage space?
You can always run your vehicle on petrol when you want to use the luggage
space of a Maruti.  All other cars have got lots of luggage space so no
problem.
Will there be any smell in the Passenger cabin?
The smell in a LPG is added only to detect the leakage. This is an added
safety feature by the LPG marketers.  At the time of Installation a proper
leakage test is done and a leakage free installation is ensured.  No leakage
no smell.

Vehicle will be started with Petrol and Gas or only Gas?
Vehicle can be started both on gas and Petrol and there is no difference in
the normal operation of the car
Is the price for conversion of the entire car same or different?

The basic system works fine for Maruti, Fiat. For Cielo it costs 3000 Rs.
extra and for all Hindustan Motors car, opel, Mercedes and Ford Escort it
costs Rs. 500 extra because these need a mixer.
Can we use private and domestic cylinder both on the same Kit?

Yes we can supply you two regulators per kit suitable for private as well as
Indane cylinder. By changing the regulator you can use different cylinder.

Can we use the domestic Indane Cylinder in the Vehicle?

Since the cylinder is subsidized legally you are not supposed to run the
Indane for Car. However the fact remains that more than 90 % car runs on
this only.

To Know more details visit a web site :


with Regards

Rajeeb Roy

28th March 1999      surendran V @hotmail.com

Mr Rajiv Boys answer on the above subject was very informative.
and very accurate and to the point.
Thank you for taking so much trouble to educate us,


With Regards,

SURENDRAN.

29th March 1999      Srinath Srinivasa @usa.net

Recently on the Ideas for India (http://www.indiapolicy.org/ifi/)
someone had posted an idea involving addressing pollution problems by
converting to engines driven by compressed natural gas (CNG). CNG was
preferred because it is supposetdly safer than LPG. 

Can someone clarify on this issue? And what about the costs of CNG? Have
they been tried for larger vehicles? 

Best, 
Srinath

30th March 1999      Padam Jain @bom4.vsnl.net.in

Before anyone tries for conversion to LPG gas,it will be worthwhile
checking with local RTO.

I think the Government has not yet approved the conversion.

30th March 1999      Pia Promina DasGupta Barve @giascl01.vsnl.net.in

As far as I know LPG for cars has been approved.  Bombay taxis were to
convert to LPG some 5 years ago.  The defence agencies have already
converted many of their vehicles to gas.  Infact, they have refil depots
from Kanyakumari to Kashmir.  I have ridden in one of their vehicles - you
cannot tell the difference.

30th March 1999      S.R.Pandri Nath @giasbg01.vsnl.net.in

Hi,

Firstly, the Manskritii Inn is proving great. Let us hope it goes form
strength to strength.

The information given by Rajeev on conversion of cars form Petrol to LPG
was great. While I am grateful for the technical detail from the vendor's
point of view , can some "actual users" of LPG converted cars share their
experience  with us before and after the LPG conversion ?

One of our friends has raised the point that this conversion is yet to be
approved by Govt. Is that right ?

Pandri

31st March 1999      RAJEEB ROY @md3.vsnl.net.in

Dear Mr. Pandri Nath,


I am the actual user of the LPG in my car. I have a Zen VX and I am getting
around 300 K.M for a 17 KG of Mobil Gas Cylinder  which costs me 275 Rupees.

There is no difference in the feeling of LPG or Petrol . LPG is better than
Petrol in may ways:
1. Pollution
2. Cost
3. NO adultration is possible
4. Better for the engine.

Relax and convert if you wish to. If you need more information. PLEASE send
me your postal address I will send you all the  POSSIBLE NEWS PAPER CUTTINGS
AND OTHER DETAILS.

Govt has approved the use of LPG as an auto fuel way back in 1996.  The
formalities are in process and it should be through any day. This has
appeared in the Bombay times of India last week. I can send you a cutting.

With Regards


Rajeeb Roy

31st March 1999      RAJEEB ROY @md3.vsnl.net.in

The Bombay Taxis are running on CNG and not on LPG.  The LPG Refilling in
the cars is not yet available in the country.

The  Conversion is being Insured by Oriental Insurance Company by taking 3 %
premium on the LPG kit price.

Regards

Rajeeb Roy

31st March 1999      sears @vsnl.com

I dont think it is allowed to convert cars to LPG and I have been told that
it is not safe either for the normal reasons of leakage and damage - Even
insurance companies would settle claims for cars fitted with LPG and it
would be disastrous in case of accidents because of the damage it could
cause.

31st March 1999      S.R.Pandri Nath @giasbg01.vsnl.net.in

Rajeeb,

Thanks once again. Shall switch over to LPG shortly for my car. I will take
your word for it and so don't trouble urself to send me press-cuttings etc.
After all what interest do you have except as a cyber friend to recommend
gas ? So, I trust your opinion,my friend.

pandrinath

1st April 1999      Padam Jain @bom4.vsnl.net.in

In bombay,taxis etc have been converted to CNG.I use CNG.

LPG is still banned

1st April 1999      Sundar T J @lucent.com