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Sonia Gandhi as next PM
19th Dec 1998 Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic @bc.seflin.org
Some people have asked me what do you think about Sonia Gandhi being the next PM. This would not be the first time a foreigner will be head of the government since the very first GG was Moutbatten who was also a foreigner. What do you think about the situation and likelihood in view of the current political developments? Why cant there be an Indian born leader in Congress party?
20th Dec 1998
George Penner
I'm curious as to how Sonia Gandhi qualifies as a foriegner. My understanding is that she has legally changed her citizenship and is a naturalized Indian. If anyone was to clain that a naturalized citizen of a country in Europe or North America was really still a foriegner, they would be rightly branded as a racist. There are some countries where birth within the country is a prerequisite for the top elected posts. America is one. You must be born in the country to become President. However, no legal restrictions apply with regards to your colour, ethnic mix, religion, etc. In India, there is no such eligibility requirement based on birth. Nor is there, I believe, in many other countries, like England. Recently, there was a large parade in Madras in honour of a person of Indian origin who had won some significant elected postion in England. Why is this worthy of applause when a person of Italian origin seeking office in India is viewed with alarm? Feel free to criticize Sonia Gandhi in terms of abilities, experience, and other practical reasons. But please do not criticize her for her racial background, country of birth, religious persuasion, or gender. These are not issues of substance. They are issues of prejudice and division. George Penner
20th Dec 1998
[email protected]
Aditya, Every one of the billion people can ask themselves this question. We must begin with our own very selves. To start with, we must rid ourselves of the curruption in our own lives so that we start respecting good, clean, etc., non-corrupt living. Once we achieve this, we should not have any problem to throw up the greatest leaders the world has ever seen!!! We need to start with ourselves!! G-
20th Dec 1998
Harshal Jawale @it.com.pl
At 12:00 AM 12/20/98 -0800, you wrote: > >This would not be the first time a foreigner will be head of the government >since the very first GG was Moutbatten who was also a foreigner. > ......not to mention "foreign" educated Prime Ministers like Nehru, Finance Ministers like Chidambaram as also various Government officials. >What do you think about the situation and likelihood in view of the current >political developments? Why cant there be an Indian born leader in >Congress party? > there has always been this feeling that Sonia was a "reluctant" entrant in the Indian politics...... rightly so, because no "foreigner" would get into it after seeing it from close quarters :-) this is a refreshingly different from archetypal politicians who seem to want to cling to power FOREVER.... The real question is - Should a leader be born in the same country - a true-blue son/daughter of the soil ? there might be quite strong arguments in favor of it..... but, hasn't India been ruled by conquerers & their progeny across the Hindukush.... Emperor Akbar's era is viewed by some historians as the "golden era" Sonia is hardly a sword-flashing Conquerer but seeing the response to her rallies in the last campaign.... she could well be "conquerer" of Indian hearts.... Sonia has been in India for so long that she even manages Hindi !! My counter-question is - Why do you NEED a India-born Congress Leader ?
20th Dec 1998
Prashant Venkateshan @hotmail.com
Hi Aditya Well I am not too sure about that. True it will help if India has a lady PM but I don’t think the time is right now. But on the other hand if Sonia Gandhi does become our Prime Minister then India might get some help from the European Union (because she is from Italy) in the form of aid. The BJP govt just seems to have stabilized a little and Sonia herself has confessed that she would not like to be the cause for the downfall of the existing govt. I don’t see the BJP govt collapsing under its own weight because of late both Jayalalitha and Mamta Banerjee have not made any noise at all.
20th Dec 1998
D. Haldar @pobox.com
Sonia Gandhi is a naturalisd Indian and as such entitled to all the rights of a born Indian. Not even her staunch enemies suggest she is not patriotic. From her track record so far it is conceded she has considerable political sense and firm in her resolve. Plus she has the advantage of having watched the political scene from Indira Gandhi's time at close quarters. She is fully aware what mistakes the political parties including Congress made in the past and she is prepared to take risks in her decision making which has stood her well so far. I am not sure she would like the wear the mantle of the Prime Minister should an opportunity arise. I would prefer her not to because then the Second Line of Defnce would have gone. She must make the Congress Presidency strong so that political stability is assured in the future. Fly by nights ar the ones who destabilise the system. All the votaries of coalition government should note that people have discarded this idea after several years of experience, having put the development of the country in the reverse gear. Atalji is hardly to be blamed. The reasons are for all to see. Cheers! DH
22nd Dec 1998
Sudhir Gandotra @netshooter.com
D. Haldar wrote: > Sonia Gandhi is a naturalisd Indian and as such entitled to all the rights I must say that you have great hopes from people who have messed-up everything in last 50+ years. What is required is for the young generaton to come and take the nation in their hands. -- Peace, Force & Joy! =========================================================== Sudhir Gandotra - "mailto:[email protected]" COMMUNICATORS : Tele-Fax : 91-11-5535770 / 5613992 Internet : http://www.netshooter.com ICQ-16733832 =========================================================== !!! Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You !!! Transform your life & change the world - Have a look at: Humanist Movement : http://www.netshooter.com/humanism ===========================================================
22nd Dec 1998
gkurien @success.net
Hi Deep,Your post makes interesting reading and immense sense! Sonia should continue as the Congress President and she should make our Sardar Manmohan Singh as Prime Minister. To me, Sardarji seems a very sensible person who can steer our nation well. From several accounts of what I have read, it seems that he is not corruptible. G-
22nd Dec 1998
Kapil Jain @hotmail.com
guys whtever said and done ....the day Sonia Gandhi becomes our PM some patriots are ready to fly off to a new country.this feeling is shared about a dozen employees in my firm. i mean it will be a shameful day for our country. God save me from leaving my country for I love India and wouldn't ever want to go to West. think hard and i am sure you all will appreciate my feelings. kapil
23rd Dec 1998
Aditya, the Hindu $kepti� @bc.seflin.org
It is a crap. You cannot leave India unless some other country is willing to accept you. Countries in the West have their own problems which you will find out only when you live there. Therefore which country do you have in mind? Having said that let me answer to other more relevant responses to my original message. I did not say that Sonia Gandhi was legally prohibited from assuming any office therefore those of you (Haldar and George) who reminded me of that did not have to do that. As a matter of fact it is not necessary to be even a citizen of India to assume the highest office as the comparison with Mountbatten was supposed to show. The Congress party itself was founded by a foreign citizen and we have not suffered anything as a result. OTOH, Harshal has raised some very important points. It seems that Indians do have a tradition of fighting with each other and being unable to unite under any one leader but readily accepting subordination to foreigners starting from Alexander and Akbar etc. Indians never seems to have had a sense of nationalism and fought for their small kingdoms. We would never have got the current political boundary of India if British had not given it as a songle country to us. I think even after Pakistan having been taken away, the current area of India compasses more land than any other ruler of India, including Asoka and Akbar ever had under the peak of their power. It seems that Indians are not unique in this matter and most people do not easily accept domination from others specially those who may be equal to them. It is much easier to accept domination from some one else that is most kings have feigned divine sanctification of their power. It was the same remoteness that made Moghuls and British rulers acceptable for such a long time. As soon as the Moghuls became Indianized and lost their link with their country of origin, they lost their aura and became unacceptable. It is only recently that people have accepted to share power with their equals after the French and American revolutions. These systems have so far survived since they have an orderly system of change of rulers after set period of time. Though, India theoretically is democracy and does hold elections facade regularly, the masses still do not give much weight to the process which is shown by the fact that most erstwhile rulers always get elected to whatever post they choose and Nehru dynasty has become a de facto royalty since people think they have special rights to rule because the British handed over the country to them when they left India. Nehru himself hobnobbed with British royalty whose representative was Mountbattern. It may have been one reason why Nehru decided to appoint Mountbatten as the first governor general. Nehru's choice was very well planned since most princely states that could have become independent countries did not do so when they were faced with Mountbatten across the table. I doubt if even Maharaja of Kashmir would have agreed to accede to India if Mountbatten was not the ruler of India. Have a peaceful and joyous day. �1998 Aditya Mishra homepage: http://www.smart1.net/aditya Page me online via http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1131674 Random thought of the day: The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. -John Kenneth Galbraith
23rd Dec 1998
George Penner @indax.com
Perhaps a special country could be set up for such refugees - a "Republic of Bigotania". There are many Americans who would similarly want to flee if a Black person became President. In other countries it could be a women or someone of a different religion. At least it is more constructive than assassinating them. George Penner
23rd Dec 1998
Pia Promina DasGupta Barve @giascl01.vsnl.net.in
Hi guys, If you fly of to another country, you will not find a an Indian at the helm of affairs. You will be an alien or a second class citizen. Are we to suppose that you patriots prefer that than working with a person who has chosen to become an Indian citizen. Pia.
23rd Dec 1998
vijay @wmi.co.in
did you hear of a person called quatrochi or something?who fled the country and is now in a place from where he cannot be brought for trial? if not; -it is just one case people should not forget about-read all about his part in bofors case and then connect the concerned parties.I am being positive not cynical.
24th Dec 1998
Ravi Talwar @blr.vsnl.net.in
I love India too, and a year back I would have felt the same way as my patriotic fellow citizen. Not any more. Sonia grows on one. I think she is a nice person, full of dignity and warmth. I still doubt whether she has it in her to be an effective prime minister of this huge country of a billion people, but she won't be worse than the ones we have been having the last few years. I would wish her luck if she decides to give it a try. Ravi Talwar Bangalore
25th Dec 1998
D. Haldar @pobox.com
Yes we have heard of Quartochi and we are aware of all the connections you mention. Your comment is not what I would care to keep in my scrap book. During Rajiv Gandhi's last tenure some dicy politicians led by V.P.Singh (who by the way owed his political survival to Rajiv) slandered Rajiv without any proof and tried to destroy him politically so that they could themselves gain. But unfortunately they were also thrown out. Let us wait for the full reports etc before you can make your judgement on that. Some people it seems in spite of all the water that has flown in Jumna are still trying to defile Rajiv through his widow. Fortunately the odd Irani or Ram (of the Hindu) do not matter. The electorate has resoundingly given its verdict and I am sure will repeat it in rest of India. Some people's envy never seem to die out. D. Haldar
28th Dec 1998
ajay paul @aol.com
Hello. I guess the thing that bothers me about Sonia Gandhi as PM is the fact that she's a naturalized Indian. In any country worth talking about, no naturalized person is allowed to hold any office such as PM, or President. It seems strange to me that with all the talent in India, a naturalized Italian house-wife who went to Cambridge to study English as a Second Language is being considered to lead India into the 21st centuary. It's a crying shame! No wonder nobody can take India seriously, when infact India does not it itself seriously. Ajay
28th Dec 1998
rajshekhar roy @hotmail.com
Hello everyone ,
I normally steer clear of political debates ( we all
have better things to do ! ) but some of the inputs forces me to join
the issue.
Let us evaluate Sonia on her merits rather than her nationality , which
for all practical purposes is Indian now. As Mr. Haldar would have us
believe the recent electoral victories of the Congress are due to the
leadership of Sonia. It would be interesting to know to whom he would
have attributed the debacle that Congress suffered in the beginning of
the year. The simple fact of the matter is that the BJP has goofed badly
in governance . The general mood was against them and as such the
verdict was what it was.
I've nothing against her as a person but in terms of knowledge of India
, political wisdom or leadership skills ( leading the Congress is like
driving a herd of sheep - anyone remembers who was the Congressman that
made this comment?) she is clearly unfit to be the prime minister of
India.
However all this really reflects the sad state that we are in today ,
even to contemplate such a possibility and debate on it !!
Thanks
29th Dec 1998
Himadri Saha @seeta.krec.ernet.in
Hi Ajay, Your concern about our so called next PM is really valid.Look the problem lies with us itself.Inspite of so much hype about our next target about the next PM by the party which has supposedly ruled and flourished in the country,people tend to vote for the same with no hesitation and the votes suggest that the party will do better in the forthcoming elections and also may take up. power in their hands.Its for the intellectual lot to decide on that whether they want to see the same.Its no use just bragging on the fact and repenting on a person to become a PM who will really be a puppet in the hands of others and do no good at all to the country and will bring the country to the fall which the Congress party has done in the 50 years and put in the hands of the BJP and just keep on criticising without realising the problem and put in on a viable solution. Just look at the schwredness of their play that they don't want to come in power right now as they realise that they will be in real trouble if they handle the situations in this stage. It is to be supposed that the patriots of the country are just waiting to ruin the country and don't want to take stage now.If the BJP is really doing the country no good,then why don't they come up and face it with their so called experience!! Himadri.
30th Dec 1998
George Penner @indax.com
Dear Jayanta I think you interpreted the part of someone else's letter I quoted as MY thoughts. I was attempting sarcasm in my reply. (Not successfully, apparently.) I strongly support Sonia Gandhi's rights to play an active role in politics in India, though I still reserve judgement on how effective she will ultimately be. So far she has been impressive. I also know the agony of watching this country living far below its potential, and am always glad when I see evidence that there are people here who are working at constructive solutions. All too often they are working alone and are frequently foiled by the very people who are supposed to be governing. It is my hope that increased dialogue and sharing of ideas and opinions will create more options for self reliance and self esteem - both valuable commodities in a society's development. In time, I suspect the Internet, and forums like this one, will play an important role in India's social and political growth. I applaud your desire to build a better India. And it has been my experience that the "optimistic and open-minded citizen's" here are not the few, but really the majority. However, they rarely get the media exposure nor are they willing to stand and be counted. Should they choose to, I suspect a lot of the political tamasha we see daily will quickly end. I look forward to the day, since I have no plans to leave, whether Sonia Gandhi is elected or not. Regards, George Penner
1st Jan 1999
Aditya, the Hindu Skepti� @bc.seflin.org
On 28 Dec 98, rajshekhar roy wrote: > Hello everyone , > I normally steer clear of political debates ( we all have > better things to do ! ) I have no intention of offending you but yours is the most common attitude of the people. It is this apathy of honest people that is responsible for the mess that we are in now. If every body avoids the discussion about the most important matters facing us then only the professional crooks will be left to run the country since we have better things to do?
2nd Jan 1999
Udhay Shankar N @pobox.com
I am reminded of a song by the rock band CoC. Here's a quote:
"Politics is the art and science of leverage. We are conditioned to condemn
politics as petty and boring, hence handing more leverage to the powers
that be. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. The
choice is yours...."
The punchline, however, is the name of the song. It's called _Vote With A
Bullet_.
Udhay
~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*
Udhay Shankar N, Bangalore, India
http://www.pobox.com/~udhay
finger for public key
3rd Jan 1999
Anup Sharma @giascl01.vsnl.net.in
Dear Raj, The fact was put very nicely by you that it was due to the goof ups made by BJP rather than the "political skills" of Sonia that have resulted in the recent poll debacles faced by the BJP. Indeed it reflects the political bankruptcy that the country in general and the Congress party in particular is suffering for a long time that they do not have a capable leader out of the hordes of leaders they have , who can take command of the party. The 'herdsman(or woman) " has to be from the Nehru family. Lets hope things will change in the new millenium , if not the new year!! Regards, Anup
4th Jan 1999
rajshekhar roy @hotmail.com
Dear Aditya ,
I was not offended by what you said. It would really be
interesting to know how many of us who are debating this issue have
actually ever been involved in any kind of social work leave alone
active politics.
The issue is not attitudinal as you say. We all feel good about
discussing a topic like this when there are many more worthwhile
things to be discussed. My objection is to these futile discussions about the
ability or the lack of it of Sonia Gandhi. All said and done the
Congress has ruled long enough and had better leaders than her. Even then we
are where we are today!!
If we really want to make a difference we need to move out of the
world of talks (mails ?) and sharing good looking quotations and actually start
contributing in any manner possible .
Just an interesting thought - how many of our members have ever
donated blood or have pledged their eyes ?
Thanks
5th Jan 1999
Aditya, the Hindu Skepti� @bc.seflin.org
Raj, I am glad that you took my comment in the spirit in which it was written. My issue was about apathy not volunteering which is a desirable but separate matter. This is the first time in history that we have a means to discuss the matters so easily and widely via email. Take it for what it is: just a first step. You can expect every one to be volunteer but some of us will do if they know that they are needed and capable of making a change.
6th Jan 1999
rajshekhar roy @hotmail.com
Dear Aditya ,
Thanks for your reply. Coming back to the point I was
trying to make - we can all contribute in small ways depending on our
situation in life. Volunteering for something as simple as blood
donation is well within the capabilities of most people yet we have
situations where donation camps do not have participants and blood is
not available when it is needed most.
A beginning has to be made somewhere and I personally think that this or
pledging our eyes is a very good one. What do the other members feel ?
Raj
