Recent Discussions

Numbersystem, some clarification

10th Nov 1998      Kailash Srivastava @mail.bip.net

On http://www.freeindia.org/home.shtml, I found the following:

>Mathematics : Number system including zero, all basic mathematics 
>including algebra, arithmetic, trigonometry, geometry 
>
It is claimed to be one of the Indian achievements.

Is it correct that the number system was given by Indians? If yes, why do we 
call them Arabic numbers?


Kailash Srivastava

10th Nov 1998      Vivek Murarka @manaskriti.com

> >Mathematics : Number system including zero, all basic mathematics
> >including algebra, arithmetic, trigonometry, geometry <> 
> It is claimed to be one of the Indian achievements.
> 
> Is it correct that the number system was given by Indians? If yes, why do
> we call them Arabic numbers?


*We* call them that because, and when, we communicate in English.

Yes, it is a fact that Indian mathematicians developed the 
number system in the pre Greek/Roman era. The conceptualisation 
of, and the mathematical symbolisation of, the Zero particularly 
is acknowledged to be the gift of India. Sometime since the 
visit of Alexander the Great, this number system reached 
Arabia/Asia Minor. With the Moor Invasion of Europe, and the 
Crusades, the number system reached Europe. Since the Europeans 
got it from the Arabs, it became know to them as the Arabic 
Numerals.

Until then, Europe used the Roman numbering system (which is 
based on the Roman Script/alphabet) where the progression is 
somewhat clumsy in comparison to the Arabic. So that the 
denotation of larger numbers becomes almost messy. And note that 
there is no zero used in the Roman numbering system - even 
though it too is a decimal system.

BTW one of the Upnishads (the Easopnishad I believe) begins with 
the sloka :

Om prunamadah purnamidam purnat purnamuddachayate
Purnasya purnmadaya purnamevavashishyate.

That is the first, most enduring, and most concise 
definition/descriptio of Infinity - both Divine and mathematical.

Hope this helps. 

Please excuse me for two things :

1.	I dont know Sanskrit, so there may be mistakes, and I cant 
translate.

2.	The basic facts are correct, but I may be wrong in some of 
the details.

Will someone help us with both.

Regards,

Vivek

12th Nov 1998      vijay @wmi.co.in

I was very happy to see your reply , it is sad that in my own country there
are people who believe that science started with Newton. Without his
discoveries that refindings we the Indians would not have been educated.
Your Hymn means that  when add fullness i.e. zero or completeness to zero,
it adds up to Zero and when you remove zero from zero what remains is Zero.
It means that there is only one universe (completeness)and even when you add
or subtract itself from it, it remains the same. Because it is complete in
all respect. Arabs were wanderers and needed the knowledge of stars and
maths for finding their ways in the desert. They got both from us the
Indians. The rest of the Europe whom we are aping today was a barbaric
community and they got this all from Arabs at a later date. So be informed
about your nations language which is the richest in the whole world and the
heritage which is so deep that no on will ever match it Our ancestors did
not believe in making much of themselves.

12th Nov 1998      Aditya, the Hindu Skeptic @bc.seflin.org

On 12 Nov 98,  Vivek Murarka wrote:

> got it from the Arabs, it became know to them as the Arabic 
> Numerals.

Incidentally the Arabs themselves do acknowledge Indian origin of numeral 
system and the word for numeral in Arabic is Hindsa i.e. Indian symbol.
Secondly as many of you know Arabic is written from right to left unlike 
Hindi and most European languages but the numbers are written from left 
to right just the way it was being done in India at the time.

> Until then, Europe used the Roman numbering system (which is 
> based on the Roman Script/alphabet) where the progression is 
> somewhat clumsy in comparison to the Arabic. So that the 
> denotation of larger numbers becomes almost messy. And note that 
> there is no zero used in the Roman numbering system - even 
> though it too is a decimal system.

Decimal system was actually a very poor choice and we are unfortunately 
stuck with it. The other system known to coexist is sexadecimal (60) that 
is still used in time and angle measurements. It did not become very 
popular due to unwieldily large base. The best would have been a 
duodecimal system since it has many more natural factors and fractions 
could be written and worked out more conveniently. Duodecimal system 
was also prevalent in India in zodiac symbols and as its corollary the 
number o months in a year etc.. I wish the Indians had integrated the two 
systems before they became universally accepted. It was left for the 
French revolutionaries  to  reorganize the hodge podge of number systems 
and units which resulted in the Metric system which was at least coherent 
though not optimum.

> Om prunamadah purnamidam purnat purnamuddachayate
> Purnasya purnmadaya purnamevavashishyate.
> 
> That is the first, most enduring, and most concise 
> definition/descriptio of Infinity - both Divine and mathematical.

This definition actually applies to zero and infinity both and actually shows 
the principle of duality. One can say therefore say that anything infinite is 
tantamount to it being nonexistent. Therefore the concepts of zero and 
infinity are complement of each other. When the Indian mathematician or 
philosopher stumbled on the idea of zero, he also gave birth to the concept 
of infinity.

13th Nov 1998      Kerry R Kinchen @stic.net